The Most Delusional People Always Win — Sarah Perl (HotHighPriestess)

Rory: Sarah, welcome.

Sarah: Hi. Long time no see.

Rory: I know. You have been up to a lot since I last saw you in LA a few years ago. 2.8 million TikTok followers, 1.2 million Instagram followers.

I dare say you've become the global face of manifestation. I think that would be accurate representation. And most importantly, I've seen you in a lot of memes over the last few years.

Your face keeps seem like it pops up on Twitter and all sorts of different places. How have you been?

Sarah: Amazing. I feel like I've been side quest maxing and but like accidentally succeeding kind of so like but yeah like Twitter randomly like popping off on there and then like in memes. I feel like I'm everywhere.

Rory: I read a really interesting quote recently. Cristiano Ronaldo when he was first coming up he was playing at Manchester United and Porto before that. He is quoted in the press as having said that at the time, he was probably like the 1,000th ranked player in the world, but every morning he would wake up and he would look in the mirror and he would say, "I am the best player on earth.

I am the best player that will ever be." And then 10 years later, that came true. But in order to feel it and play the way the world's best player would, he had to tell himself. He had to tell himself that every single day.

What's the lesson in that?

Sarah: Self-concept is everything. Who you believe you are, you will become. And like I've seen this time and time again, like the most delusional people always win.

And I think it's not always like the hardest working person. Like honestly, it's not because when gets hard, like the thing that'll keep you going is your self-belief. And I think we're all just like self-fulfilling prophecies at the end of the day.

And yeah, like you have to be pretty delusional to like at a certain point,? So, like the more delusional you are, the better in my opinion.

Rory: Absolutely love that. With that in mind, I would love it if you could introduce yourself, tell us what you've been building, a little bit about your background, your story until now, and a little bit about the app.

Sarah: Yeah. So, I'm HotHighPriestess. And I make spiritual manifestation mindset content.

And yeah, I started by like in college, I posted a TikTok and it accidentally went viral and it was like tarot cards accidentally. I like manifested it. And then I was like I just like feel like in that moment I was like I feel like my life changed and I was like this can't be a coincidence.

And so I posted again and again and like every video was going viral and I was like okay clearly this is like some opportunity that I'm meant to take. And yeah from there I like scaled a personal brand. I did like brand deals.

I did eventually I started doing digital products. And then I have an e-commerce brand on TikTok shop and Amazon as well. And then recently I launched an app called Stella.

Let's go. Download rate of five stars. But yeah, and that's been like the most successful thing I've ever launched, which is super random.

I never thought that I would like launch an app. But it was like right place, right time. It seemed like such an obvious choice at the time when I was building it.

So yeah, it's been incredible. It's a manifestation app that creates custom visualizations of your dream life.

Rory: So I downloaded this morning. The onboarding is amazing.

Sarah: Thank you.

Rory: You for the for the listeners, first of all, you should download it and have a look. You step through and ask you a series of questions about your life. And then it from what I understand it gave me a series of audio clips to listen to that was sort of like 10 years in the future.

It was like what my life could become. And when I listened to them, it was really it was exactly what I wanted my life to become. It was like my wife in the kitchen going through board meeting prep with me and things like this was like very like specific things that like I would think tell me about like the process in like how did you like I know you've done a lot of stuff in like manifestation online, but how did you think about this as like a proven user concept and something that had to be built?

I've never seen anything like it.

Sarah: No. And it's that's the thing. It's like a completely novel concept.

I think in consumer apps a lot of people like make or make apps that are just like copies of other apps or based around other concepts whereas like Stella was kind of a novel thing. What the reason I built it was because at the time like over the summers at some point I started doing I'd always been doing this like manifestation technique called scripting where you like write about your dream life as if it's yours today.

Love it. And so I'd be like, I woke up in my dream apartment d and I was like, it's like one, it's like annoying to like sit down and like write that out. Two, it's like limited to your own consciousness.

And I was like, well AI is a thing. Like let me ask chat to like write something out for me. So I started going on ChhatBT and I was like, write a story of my dream life.

Everything about me. Like what would my life look like a year from now if everything goes well? And I would read this story and start crying, like literally sobbing.

I'm like, "Oh my god." Like I couldn't have even imagined that for myself, because it goes outside of your realm of And I was like,

Rory: Give us some examples.

Sarah: Like for example, it was like it started talking about things like my company getting acquired or whatever. And I'm like, I don't even I wasn't even thinking about that. Now

Rory: Dreaming big.

Sarah: Yeah. Dreaming so much bigger than I even gave myself permission to. And so I think that's like what I love about Stella is it gives you permission to dream big.

Rory: It's a beautiful tagline.

Sarah: Yeah. Right. I know.

Rory: Well, I really like the right now I think on your Instagram it says delusion isn't a disorder.

Sarah: It's an app. Yeah. I love it.

And it works. And that's the crazy thing is like you I've been listening to these audios especially about my app funny enough kind of meta but then I'm like wait like it's actually happening because you it's like the reticular activating system in your brain when you like tell yourself I want a red car suddenly you're seeing red cars everywhere and suddenly you're talking to someone who has a red car and then one thing leads to the next and now you have what you want.

So

Rory: I completely agree. And so about like 3 4 years ago, I was skeptical on what manifestation is. I think I understand it now.

And not only do I understand it, but I actually believe it for a lot of reasons. There is a study that I'm going to cite right now, which is super interesting. So I'm pulling my phone out.

There is a study by Christina Dragenich and Christy Erle that basically says placebo sleep affects cognitive functioning. Placebo sleep affects cognitive functioning. And what this study showed is that if you've slept badly, you can actually convince yourself that you're well rested.

And this is a peer-reviewed study that was published. If you've had a stressful day, you can convince yourself that's fuel. If you've failed in something, you can convince yourself that's useful data.

So basically like you can literally the tagline here says literally just having the delusion of a golden retriever mindset measurably changes outcomes in physiology. And there's a huge lesson in this. There was also another study from Colorado University in 2014 that showed so all the like the sleep trackers like rings and eight sleep and whoops and all these things that are giving you sleep scores when you wake up.

If you wake up and you look at it and you see a bad sleep score, it really negatively impacts your day in a way that it wouldn't if you had never looked at your sleep score. You're exactly the same person, but now someone's told you're going to have a bad day. Exactly.

Oh my god. Yes. That's why I stopped wearing my ring.

So, I'm officially a manifestation convert. I'm in I'm in the cult. Let's go.

Sarah: The Stella gang. No, but like and also like professional athletes like they can visualize I forget the study, but like basketball players will like visualize themselves like throwing it in the whatever and so it works. It's like when you visualize it, you literally physiologically change your body.

Rory: Yeah. And we've known this from placebo drugs for a long time where so often in double blind studies when someone takes a placebo they will end up with a similar effect as the person taking the actual drug and science was just like baffled on this for years. It was manifesting essentially.

It's the same thing. We've just had different names for it over the decades. So to anyone who criticizes you, what do you have to say?

Sarah: I would say try. How about you try it and then come back to me? Because I was a skeptic too.

Like I was the only reason I even started manifesting was because I was so desperate at the time. I was like I will try anything at this point. Like I was like super broke and going through a heartbreak and I was like I need anything at this point.

I'll believe in anything. And so I was like okay let me say these affirmations. Let me like do these meditations, visualizations.

And then like literally instantly my life changed. And I was like well I can't deny this anymore. Whether it's scientific, whether it's psychological, whether it's neuroscience, I was like, I don't care what it is.

If it works, I'm going to keep doing it.

Rory: That's beautiful. That begs the question, what is the most delusional thing that you believed about yourself before it became true?

Sarah: A lot of things. I think like one of the ones I that just comes to mind is I think like I was su like a huge Alex Heroszi fan. Yeah, he's great.

And I don't remember where I think this was this number wasn't even right but I was like what age I like I think I looked up what age did Alexi become a millionaire and I think it was actually 26 but I think I read it and it said 23 or something like that I don't know

Rory: And you were like

Sarah: And I was like well I have to I have like a year left like I'm going to make this happen and I did it and like and so I was just like wo like this is crazy right? And I was like how cool would that be? So I think that's the most delusional thing cuz I was like so in debt with college debt.

At the time like I wasn't I was like in school like I was or I just graduated rather, but like [snorts] I didn't think that would be possible but I you become delusional and you're like well I'm going to figure it out or I'm going to die trying.

Rory: Yeah, that's the wrong way to put it. I love that. Therefore, is hot high priestess not a character and it's authentically you or is hot high priestess a character that you're sort of like dramatizing this and where does Sarah Pel end and hot high priestess begin in that world?

Sarah: That's such a good question. I would say when people meet me they're like you are exactly who you are online. Mine is a little bit of the psycho stuff.

Like I'm a little crazy and I dramatize it but like for the most part I feel like it's literally me. I'm always manifesting. I like I use my app.

I do the manifesting work. I think like maybe a little bit like I'm just a little crazy online, but

Rory: I love that. So, let's drill into content because there's a lot of people out there who start making content. They make a 100 videos.

Every video gets 50 plays or you get stuck in that, the 320ish play TikTok trap. Your videos have obscene amounts of plays. Obscene.

Like there's so many over 5 million. There's so many over 10 million. I saw some with like 20 million So, it feels like you've cracked onto that you really understand how to make a video that works with a hook, how to make something go viral.

If you could break down the most important things that about creating viral content, please share.

Sarah: Wow. I would say obviously mindset, not to go back to that, but truly I feel like something that like I think part of the reason delusion helped so much is because inevitably you're going to have a season of flopping, right? And I remember when I was starting TikTok, things were going really well and then I had like a season where like my videos were just like not getting views.

And that was like happening to all my like creator friends and a lot of them stopped posting and like just like went back cuz we were all in college at the time. Like they just went to school and they were like, "All right, this." And it's crazy because the delusional belief like I just had this belief that I would hit like a million followers at the time.

And I was like, that belief carried me through the hardest seasons of making content because the truth is it so much of it is like outside of your control or you're inevitably going to be slapped in the face. So, I think mindset is really important. And I would post every day.

I remember I would go like live on TikTok and I'd be like I would pretend I had like thousands of people watching me when I had like two people there being like hi like whatever. And so like you just have to

Rory: Fake it till you make it.

Sarah: Fake it till you make it. Like you have to see it,. But then on like a literal, level I think what helps is I always say like virality is in the intersection of like saying the thing that everyone wants everyone believes but no one has the balls to

Rory: I love that.

Sarah: What I'm saying? Can you give us an example? So, an example is like when I was starting, I was making a lot of content on like how to manifest your ex back, which is so stupid, but it's like,

Rory: Was this personally driven? [Screaming]

Sarah: No. And so like that's something like everyone maybe subconsciously at some point has thought, but no one wants to admit or like make content about, right? And so the person who has the balls to make that content, it's going to go viral, right?

Because that's what everyone secretly desires but no one and that's why like Trump is like super popular and like Andrew Tay for example because he was saying what a lot of men were believing but didn't necessarily no one put it into words so obviously maybe don't do that but like something along those lines of like something you truly believe in something you've seen work something a belief you truly have but then like post about it so I think that and I think one of the biggest tips I would say is like literally just recreate create content that works over and over and over again to the point.

Genuinely, you can go through look through my videos. I've reposted the same video so many times like the word for word and I'm like and it still does well and I'm like that's just crazy. But that's like my biggest.

Rory: We learned this at checkmate as well. We had hooks that were working really well and we were like we're going to shoot it again but he's going to use a banana for a microphone. We're going to shoot it again but he's going to put his sunglasses back to front and it just like works repeatedly and there's so many people on TikTok.

There's so many that like it will just find new and you forget like I think about this all the time like again I love Alex Herozi like he has made videos of like the same thing so many times and I love it every time I see it. We forget we heard it yesterday it's just like it's so great so I'm just like keep remaking it.

Walk us through your very first viral video. What that moment was like why you think it worked. How many you'd made until that point?.

Were you about to give up? Like, walk us through like the moment it all started clicking.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, so again, I thought it like I don't even know what compelled me to post the first video I ever posted. Maybe it was like a calling or something, but yeah, it was like a random Tuesday and I was really into tarot cards at the time, like a co like hyperix.

Yeah, obviously. And so I like made a video or it was actually three and it was like the one you see is the one you're meant to hear and one of them like I would pull out one card and one of them was like the lovers card. Thank god it was because that went viral obviously and it was like they're in love with you whatever and like I [snorts] posted it and I didn't think anything of it and then I was like hanging out with my friends.

Cuz I came back and I saw the video was like at 50,000 views and 100,000 and then like a million and I was like holy I felt like I was on drugs. Like I was like I have never felt something like this in my life. Every time I refresh it was like I was like oh my god.

And I was like well I should just keep doing that. Like let me post another terror video. And then it got like 4 million views.

So I got lucky I think. Well I did. But also, sometimes people will have like a hit and then just kind of like bounce out or they'll change.

They think this worked. Let me try something new. Yes.

Big mistake. What worked for me was I was like, "This works. How can I literally make something super similar because we know this styled as well." So, yeah.

Rory: I love that. I wrote down in my notes here. It's interesting because with your biggest videos, I feel like there's really two themes that come up a lot.

Wealth and love. Yeah. But your two biggest videos of all time are both about love.

They're both It's I think one has 21 million views, the other has 22 million views, and they're both about manifesting getting your ex back. People seem to latch on to this more than wealth, interestingly enough, on social media. Is there a lesson in that?

Sarah: Yes. And it's that especially with so everything is psychological and to succeed in business, you have to understand human psychology. And I think it's so true.

It always comes down to that. And with everything, even like my e-commerce brand or like when TikTok shop is like the perfect example of that cuz you have, 15 seconds to like hook someone in. And so what it taught me was the most powerful, like the best thing you could do in business is work with human biology.

Like instead of trying to convince someone, like work with what their natural body is already wanting to act on, right? Whether [clears throat] that's survival, whether that's health, whether that's, like for most people it's going to be love or lust or whatever. If you use biology with like to help and support your business, you just do so much better.

Rory: Using biology is a good way to phrase it. I've often phrased it as for consumer startups, it has to latch on to one of the seven deadly sins. Yeah.

Which is way and wealth and love, lust and Greed. It's it's it's the things that are core to us, and we shouldn't even think of them as sins. It's a beautiful thing to be rich.

It's a beautiful thing to be in but those are the core human desires. And when you think about every consumer startup that has made it, they have latched on to one of the seven deadly sins and created a product around it and helped you get it. And I feel like you've really nailed that here for multiple things because you can manifest any of the seven deadly even if that's what your heart your heart desires,

Sarah: Literally. Yeah. And it's it's really interesting because you even think about your own life and it's like what am I motiv like what am I motivated to act on, and like how much more money am I willing to spend on those things, versus like going to the gym.

Like it's like I love it, but it's not like an urgent like thing that

Rory: So you're now an app founder and we're going to drill into that in a second because I love this direction for you. Mostly 100% in January 2025, it looked like TikTok might be going away forever. How was that for you?

Sarah: Stressful for sure. Yeah, cuz I remember like the rumors, it like kept coming up. It was actually on my birthday that they banned it for one day and I was like,

Rory: I remember that day. It was like January 18th or 19th or Meta was fist pumping.

Sarah: It was right. They were like, thank God. And I was like, I had again like I it's funny cuz I think it was the New York Times reached out and they were like, "What do you think's going to happen?" I was like, "It's not going away." Like I just have this deep conviction.

Not that I manifested it, but I was just like I And what? I was like, "And if it goes away, I'll figure it the out." I did it the one time I could do it again. Something new will pop up.

That's I was actually kind of excited cuz I was like, "If it does get banned, there's going to be a new platform." And I

Rory: First move on. You're ready to go.

Sarah: I'll be there first. Yeah, Vine's coming back is what everyone was saying, right? I was like, I'm ready.

So, I was like nervous just cuz I obviously my biggest audience is on TikTok, but I was like, I have so much selfrust as a founder, as a content creator that I'm like I and at the time I was like it actually benefited me because I built a larger following on Instagram because of it. So, I started pushing all my following like cross, crossromoting.

Yeah,

Rory: That's a good segue into this. Our audience is almost entirely founders and people who want to build companies or social media presence or they just want to build a brand of some kind. You build in both TikTok and Instagram.

Have you noticed really measurable differences in the algorithms between the two? Is there content that works on one that doesn't work on the other? And then do you play with paid versus organic?

Like how have you found all of that between the two ecosystems?

Sarah: So, I would say you have to be on both. Like that's just like absolutely like you're missing out on so much if you're not on reals and on TikTok and on YouTube shorts and on everything. The beauty of TikTok is you could post a video today and it can you could wake up tomorrow with 5 million views and it's like crazy.

It's crazy.

Rory: It's happened to us a few times like whoa it's lifeanging. What did we do right and you're like oh I'm going to have to hire new people like last minute.

Sarah: So, but that's the beauty of TikTok is it's it's almost like I don't know, like gambling. Whereas Instagram, it's like a longer term game. And it's more like the S&P 500 where you're like you kind of have to just keep putting your reps in and then eventually, it starts taking off, but it's a lot slower.

What I like about Instagram a lot more is it's extremely consistent, whereas TikTok is inconsistent. So, like one day you'll have a video get 5 million views and then the next you're like at 30,000 and you're like what?,

Rory: I've heard the follow count almost doesn't matter now because it's just it's still just depends on that first 3 seconds no matter what. And then like if it [clears throat] it won't even show it to your own followers if the first 3 seconds isn't a good hook.

Sarah: Exactly. Whereas Instagram it does. So, and still even then like not as much nowadays.

So because of like the for you page. So I would say you need to be posting on both. What I like about TikTok is you could just like post.

Like you could post whatever. What I like about TikTok is I just post like I post to experiment on TikTok and then I repost the videos that have done well on Instagram. And that's really worked well for me.

And what you'll notice is on Instagram it's a lot higher quality more curated content. Whereas like TikTok it's like it's such in the- moment stuff that goes viral and not curated. Like honestly the more curated the less viral it goes on TikTok.

I we've actually noticed the exact same thing. We had kind of like a realization that TikTok was almost like quality over quantity.

Rory: And we were like we were trying to make the perfect content with the perfect script and the perfect angle. Then we were like let's just release 100 terrible videos and one will go viral and one did. We were like what about that one?

Let's make 10 versions of that. And then five of those will go viral. Like okay like it and then with Instagram it's we felt exactly the same way.

It was like, well, the stuff on there [snorts] is like very polished and like there's something weird about the format that just rewards that content for whatever reason. But for some reason, yeah, we have found the same way.

Sarah: Yeah. And I mean another thing I love about Instagram is Many Chat has been an incredible tool for me. And DMs and stories is like great.

Such a good tool. Which you can leverage, but like TikTok it's not as much. So

Rory: So let's transition to the founder Yeah. So was there like what was the desire to build an app? You already had a wonderful audience.

You were selling courses like you still are. You have incredible social media following. What drove you to say like okay I need to go down the app world and this is

Sarah: It's crazy because again like I never I'm not technical. What it was? I think like exactly a year ago, I think I watched a podcast of like someone being like, "I'm 23 and I made like a billion dollars or whatever." And I was like, "Oh." Like, and I think so something that happens to me is like the universe like kind of just like makes things obvious for me.

Like it'll just like I'll randomly start meeting people that are in the app world or I'll randomly start meeting people that are like, doing this or that. So, it was one of those things where it's like I saw that and then all of a sudden I start meeting all these app people and I was like, "Wow, so the most important thing is distribution without a doubt." And I was like, "Well, that's something I'm good at.

Rory: You unlock,

Sarah: Right?" And so I was like, "It literally to me the way I saw it was I was like consumer apps or at least my app and those sorts of apps. I was like it's literally like TikTok shop but just like for an app and a software." And I was like, why don't I do this? Like, I can make an incredible product.

I have so many ideas of products I can make. I have the audience. That's the thing that so many of these tech founders are missing.

Like they'll build the most incredible product and then they're like they either have to raise to like paid ads or Exactly. And that's always the problem is like how do we distribute? Whereas I was like that problem solved for me.

So, how do I build a product that's good? And also I just like was obsessed with the idea. I also just didn't know a lot of female tech founders and I was like why don't I like pioneer in this space kind of.

Rory: I had this conversation with a friend recently where I feel like there's the majority of software engineers are the majority of startup founders are men and men are building products that they know need to exist and there is this huge market huge market to build products for women.

Sarah: Yes. Especially technical products like apps and like we have we've had this sort of like vibe coding explosion in the US over the last few years where like everyone's building apps now but for the most part my friends who vibe code it's still the guys and there's all these things that the girls want to see built and like I was seeing the other day like there's no like I think there was a post on Instagram the other day that was like someone needs to build a palm reading app that just like scans your palm and it would print money but guys aren't even thinking about this stuff it would print money like a like a makeup app or like They don't even know these problems exist and women deal with these problems but don't have a solution cuz a lot of them are non-technical now with cloud code and whatever it's like that gap is like decreasing now.

So like now women can actually build products and something I say all the time is I think women are going to dominate tech in the next 5 years. It's honestly I think the most successful tech founders are going to be women.

Rory: I would agree. Yeah. I think this leads naturally into your audience is primarily like 22 to 25ish year old women.

What do startup founders not understand about selling to that audience because that's a lucrative audience that does spend money on things that they want and it's a very big audience especially in the US.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, I think the first thing is people just don't even know what problems exist. Like I don't think a guy would have thought of a Stella, like or like I don't know like I don't know there's just so many female problems that are like untapped in the market.

And so I think like the biggest thing is they just don't even know these problems exist because they're not talking to women. Also, like tech bros are not actively,. So, I think that's the first thing.

And then I think I think something really interesting I'm seeing is like a lot of technical people partnering with influencers or content creators or like even just like women who can help on product and that's been like revolutionary for so many like co-founder relationships. But yeah, I think that's [snorts] like a big thing that's missing is people just don't know what needs to be solved.

Rory: So, what's been the hardest part of pivoting to an app founder persona?

Sarah: Honestly, it's been more great than problematic to be honest. It's been fantastic. It's been like it I think the thing that I didn't expect was how much I would love this.

Yeah, this is so rewarding to be able to like build something and use it every day and like I feel like I'm in science fair or something. I feel like a kid again. It's so cool.

And you can always make it better and innovate like that. Like and I think the other thing is I think about the fact that my app couldn't have really existed a few years ago because it's like it's using like voice AI voice technology and like a lot of this AI stuff that's new. And I think that's so cool cuz then I think about the fact of where is this app going to be 2 years from now, right?

And to be on the edge of AI and like constantly innovating is so awesome. The other thing is again because there aren't that many women who are building there's not a lot of competition.

Rory: And so you cuz you have a personal brand so by that you have distribution. Now you have a tech product as well. You didn't take venture capital funding.

Do you need it?

Sarah: No. So this is the crazy thing, right? Because it's almost like all profit which is so cool.

Like I mean obviously there's some expenses but like for the most part it's like instant profit and I don't need venture capital and we're we just started trying out paid ads but like up till this point we haven't even done paid ads and we've been making like great revenue and so I think that's just the power of working with someone who has a personal brand.

And again, like I think women want to have apps. They just don't. The other piece of this is like women don't even know what Claude is.

Like it's really that bad. Like some women don't even know that like let alone cla what Claude is. So there's just a big gap in the genders on like technology and yeah, understanding.

So speaking to a young founder now, if you were talking to someone who was, early 20s, wanted to build, coming out of college, no idea what to do with their life, what's something that they should do day one, Monday, post online, like post content. I think once you have a personal brand, you could sell anything. Like I could sell air and it'll sell honestly.

Like I could sell anything because it's like people are bought in on me, right? And so they're going to trust anything I sell them and they know. I mean at this point they've like bought in so for so many years.

So like I think what I would do is just like post content, build a personal brand because at that point then you don't need venture capital and what I mean and then like you could sell anything. Like it's it's just it's so great. Obviously there's another route you could go which is like you could raise and like that's absolutely amazing too but it's just like we live in just such a unique time where like again you could just go viral like tomorrow.

And I think the biggest thing stopping people is again limiting beliefs or the fear of being seen. Like people think it's cringe. And I'm like, your mindset is costing you millions of

Rory: I completely agree. I have a close friend who is building a CPG brand in Los Angeles and she said to me the other day, she was like, my number one advice for young founders is to be post cringe. Like you need to there's the valley of cringe and you need to not care and you need to be on the other side of that Don't climb cringe mountain.

No one is like someone's going to like beat you up in the street cuz you made a bad TikTok. No.

Sarah: Right. No. And what?

I'm like, what? If they cringe, if I cringe, okay, but I'm going to have a successful business. Like just like it's so worth it.

Like, it's so worth it. So, just like I always tell people, I'm like, the only thing stopping you from posting if you be honest with yourself is your fear of being seen. And that mindset blockage is costing you millions of dollars.

Rory: 100% agree. And actually, I almost feel the opposite, which is when I see someone putting themsel out there, I actually really respect it. And I respect it even more if their videos are flopping and they're still gone.

Cut it out. I'm like keep going. Like this is sick.

I know this person has grit. They got the dog in them. I'm Yeah.

It's super important.

Sarah: It is. It is. And it really doesn't even like you don't need millions of followers to have a successful app.

That's the other thing. So yeah, but it's been amazing being a tech founder. Like I much prefer it to every other thing I've ever done.

Rory: I love that.

Sarah: Yeah. And also working with co-founders is amazing.

Rory: So it still feels like Stella kind of came out of nowhere and I when I first saw it I was like super excited for you. Was it driven by any kind of like motivation outside of business?

Sarah: Yeah, for sure. So, I was going through a heartbreak and I think like I always Yeah, it's okay. But I think like for one, I always I always profit off my pain.

So, that's like a rule I have in life is I'm like if I'm getting heartbroken, I'm making millions of dollars. There's just no

Rory: There's our thumbnail right there. Profit off pain.

Sarah: Profit off your pain. And I genuinely think like spite is the greatest motivator that exists in the world. Like truly, and I know that's a hot take.

But I'm just like I just refuse to be hurt and not alchemize the pain into something in my life. And I just there is nothing in the world that is like poverty didn't even motivate me as much as spite has to be able to like it's like justice. Like it's what I'm saying?

Like to create something from a place of I'm doing this for me to prove to myself that I stand up for myself. I defend myself like I have me. And I mean truthfully that spite has motivated me for months like to this point.

I started building Stella like months ago and it hasn't gone anywhere. Whereas like money motivation comes and goes. Even intrinsic motivation for the good of all and all of that stuff like I love it but like there could be hard days and then it's not as exciting right but to be motivated by something that's like this is for me and to prove to myself that no one can take away my success no one can stand in the way of like what like my bro like that will keep you going

Rory: Do you feel comfortable sharing the source of the spite

Sarah: Let's just say let's say I'll I'll say it. I won't say names or anything, but I was in a relationship where I just felt like I had to choose between my career and this person actually didn't want me building this app. So, funny enough, and I was put in a position where I was like I have to choose between

Rory: Out of jealousy for your success or like

Sarah: Honestly, yeah. Like it was that and like just I mean I feel not to get into the specifics but like I didn't know much about the app world so he would say things that like made me believe like it was like a valid reason. I don't know.

But yeah I think and that's that's honestly a hard part about being like a female like a successful woman in general is like it's hard to date. Like it really is hard to date because like it's threatening. It kind of is threatening to men who aren't in the same, on the same level or like, whatever.

And it's hard because you are constantly put in this situation where you feel like you have to choose between your career or like making a man comfortable. And I did choose him. And that was like one of the biggest mist.

It wasn't even a mistake. I honestly think it had to happen that way cuz if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have ended up in New York. I wouldn't have built this app.

I wouldn't have scaled it as fast as I have. Everyone's like, there's like Twitter threads being like, "How did this girl 300k MR in two months?" And I'm like, "It's spite." Like, it was that heartbreak. It's I don't I don't know what to tell you.

Like, get your heart broken. Like, yeah, I felt like it was Yeah. Because I chose him and I didn't choose this app.

I was like, "Well, now I'm going to choose this app more than I choose anything and I owe this to

Rory: That's incredible. There's a there's a study that I often think of. It's it's one of those things that it's sort of like unfortunate when it.

Like it's one of those facts you wish you didn't know. But that a lot of the most successful founders of all time, a lot of the most successful people full have come from a childhood of some pain like an absent father being like a classic example with and then it's given them this immense spite for the world and something like a big chip on their shoulder to go improve.

And this is seen time and time again in every single industry. And as like a young man hearing that where you're like you want to be a really good dad one day, and then it's like is the lesson that you need to be absent to your children if you want them to succeed, which I don't think that's I don't think that's the lesson.

Of course, I want to be a very present dad, but I think that there is truly something to be said. Spite is extremely motivating. Pain is extremely motivating and like really like get you in that place.

But having said that, I do have a quote from you here. Ooh, success can feel just as lonely as

Sarah: And what is an example of that from this year? I think truly like this breakup experience was an example of that like where I was like I have to choose myself in this moment. But I also think like outgrowing so many friendships where it's just like it's so lonely to like win and not be able to tell anyone.

Yeah. It's a lonely feeling and or to be like yeah to have to hide your wins or have to hide your pain. Like it's just like you could be surrounded by so many people and still feel so alone.

Like luckily now I have like so many friends that are also founders, but there was like a season there where like I wasn't you aren't fully there's a season you go through where you're not fully like still with your like day ones, but you're also not fully with the founder community yet and you're like in that in between and you're like wow, I'm truly alone right now and you have to make it through and yeah, I'm glad I did.

But it was it's there have been extremely lonely chapters. Honestly, moving to New York was like one of the best decisions I made ever for that. Location changes everything.

Fastest way to like I think like moving is a portal. Honestly,

Rory: I made a video on this where I think there's a Nabal Rabicon quote that the most important three things are where you are, what you're doing, and who you're doing it with. And if you nail those three, it's very hard to fail. And I adore my Australian friends so much.

They're the best people in the world. None of them wanted to be startup founders. And but they're all doing amazing things.

I like doctors and lawyers and engineers and I love them and I go to their weddings and it's the best. But when I moved to San Francisco, I felt more like I'd found the people who had my interests and it was so much easier for me to start building and like conquering the business world. It's almost inevitable when you're in certain places, it's surrounded by it and which it's not a discredit to like my former friend group.

They're the best people ever, but they we had misaligned interests and now like almost everyone in my life is like a founder or building a brand or building something and it's like really like meaningfully changed. I think you that people always say you're the product of the five people you hang with the most and it's it's overwhelmingly

Sarah: It's so true. It is so true. And you start to realize it.

It compounds.

Rory: So we are going to manifest something right now. You're coming back on the show in a year and what are we projecting? What are we manifesting one year from now?

I'm going to start. I want 100,000 YouTube

Sarah: Ooh. It's done. Making it happen.

I can see it. I can see that number. I see the YouTube plaque.

I see the YouTube plaque.

Rory: I can see the plaque. I'm going to be holding it on the show in one year's What about you?

Sarah: I would love a million users on Stella and I to hit number one in health and fitness on the app store.

Rory: Let's go.

Sarah: And a mill MR.

Rory: So final remarks for our listeners. If someone watching this takes one piece of advice from you, what is it?

Sarah: No pressure. H you will always become what you think about. You will always become what you believe.

Like I believe in the law of law of assumption so much. You your assumptions create your reality. And when that is all you have to do honestly.

I think people think it's about hard work. It's about grit. I think it's more so like there have been things in my life that like have landed in my lap.

I can't explain. Miracles have happened and the only thing I can like trace it back to is I just believed it was possible. And so if you believe you have to work hard to get what you want, you will, right?

And if you believe you can have it easy, you probably will. And I always say I get paid to exist because I just like I've just and because I say it so often, I've just attracted systems in my life that have made that possible. But also, I do work that I love so much that it never feels like I'm ever working.

I would do it for free. So, I think just watch what you think and assume the best case scenario. Believe you're the luckiest person alive.

Believe that miracles can come to you. Believe that it can be easy and then watch what happens.

Rory: Sarah Pearl, hot high priestess on Instagram and TikTok, founder of the app Stella, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been such a pleasure having you and can't wait to see you in a year. We'll see if these manifestations come true.

Sarah: Thank you.